Len Pasquerelli notes that the Giants only have around 4.3 million to sign all their rookies. If Eli Manning wnats to, he could make it very difficult for the Giants to sign him. Since he said that he wants to be a Giant, I think he'll work something out. I don't see Snee giving the Giants a hard time either since he's family and everything.
By the way, this money counts against the regular cap too, which means the Giants really had to cut (or restructure) someone in order to sign any #4 pick.
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So the Giants cut Collins who refused to restructure his contract. Not that I blame him, how do you restructure a contract with one year left? You add another year. Collins will probably look for a longterm commitment somewhere else.
That means one of two things might happen. One, Eli might start for the Giants. Rookie QBs often have losing records, but of course the ones taken first often go to teams with less talent than the Giants. Interestingly, Kerry Collins and Phil Simms were the last two quarterbacks to ahve winning rookie seasons.
Where will Collins go? Possibilities are Baltimore Ravens, San Francisco 49ers, Dallas Cowboys and Arizona Cardinals. The Ravens don't have a star receiver after getting screwed by the NFL in the Terrel Owens debacle, but I think if they sign Collins they become superbowl favorites. And they do have Jamal Lewis, Todd Heap, and now the solid but unspectacular Kevin Johnson.
The Cowboys see Drew Henson as their QB of the future, but Collins would be a better tutor than Quincy Carter. I for one hope we don't have to play Dallas led by Collins... Hopefully Collins isn't too bitter about the Ravens Defense picking him apart in 2000 and he signs with them (or someone else) rather than Dallas.
If I judged players based on their nicknames, Jared Lorenzo would be my favorite player. His nicknames include J. Load, The Hefty Lefty, and the Pilsbury throwboy. I guess 280 pound quarterbacks who run a 4.8 40 and have rocket launcher arms are rare enough that they get lots of cool nicknames. I hope that signing him means we can dump the bachelor (clicking this link to CBS sportsline might turn your screen into a big Van Helsing ad. You can close the ad by clicking the red x).
With Eli Manning, Jared Lorenzo, and Ryan Van Dyke kicking butt in NFL Europe, the Giants don't lack young quarterbacks. With Collins seemingly on the way out, the Giants do lack an experienced veteran who has proved he can lead an NFL team.
A good article from Giants.com about what Accorsi and Coughlin have to say about the Giants day 2 draft picks. Some highlights:
There was no opportunity to draft a MLB without reaching. Guess they don't like Rod Davis, who was projected to go to the Giants in the third round on a lot of mock drafts I saw. He went in the fifth round to Minnesota, #155 overall. I reserve the right to criticize Accorsi in the future for not taking Rod Davis or Niko Koutouvides who went to Seattle in the fourth. If Torbor and Wilson are more successful, feel free to criticize me.
When I first heard about the 250 pound defensive end, I though they might try to convert him to MLB. But, Torbor is going to be an outside linebacker. I guess the might try to move Emmons inside when they show a 3-4 on passing downs since the Giants think Torbor can rush the passer or drop back and cover.
The safety Gibril Watson is projected as a gunner on coverage teams.
Wide Receiver Jamaar Taylor was seen as a high second round pick until an injury. If he recovers fully, the Giants got a bargain.
Isaac Hilton, the other 250 pound defensive end is seen as a speed rusher. No mention about converting him to another position.
So if you've been reading, you know I think that the Giants could have handled the draft better but that I'm excitied Eli Manning will be throwing touchdown passes to Shockey and Toomer within a couple of years. What do others think?
Mike Lupics dismisses critics:
The Giants gave up a lot to get him. Accorsi once gave up a lot to get Bernie Kosar in a supplemental draft. Manning is better. The people who run him down do it to be cute, or different. And as for Giant fan who don't like this deal, remember something: Giants fans didn't decide that they love Phil Simms until he won them a Super Bowl.
Don Banks has the Giants listed under "losers" while Smith is a winner who "picked the Giants pocket."
Nick Canepa wants to play poker with Accorsi and says the Chargers "fleeced" the Giants.
Pete Prisco says (as I do) that the Giants gave up "way too much."
Jason Cole is equally unimpressed (you have to register for this one and it's probably not worth it), and isn't much kinder to other NFC East teams (with the possible exception of Dallas) as he talks (very briefly) about their drafts.
Finally, Leonard Shapiro says that this is so good for the NFL that there may be a conspiracy. Everyone denies it, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few rules were broken.
None of the Giants day 2 selections were on my draft wishlist:
round 4 I've already written about.
5: Gibril Wilson SS
6: Jamaar Taylor WR
7: Drew Stojny OT
7: Isaac Hilton DE/OLB
Who they missed:
I wrote about Nat Dorsey and Stacy Andrews last time. They both went in round 4. Jason Shivers went in round 5 as did Rod Davis. Kelly Butler went in round 6. Maybe I've been pretty critical the last few days. I hope all the new Giants will prove that I'm worried about nothing!
So with the first pick on Day 2 the Giants chose an undersized defensive end named Reggie Torbor. I suppose he'll be good on special teams, but why ignore Kelly Butler, who probably won't make it to round 5. Stacy Andrews might, and I love his potential, but I don't see him starting this year. Nat Dosey played left tackle, but he wouldn't beat Petigout and is coming off an injury.
If we were going to ignore our needs and go DL, I would have preferred Isaac Sopoaga. I guess they're confident William Joseph will recover fully.
After my initial shock from the Rivers/ Manning trade, I wrote here that the Giants paid too high a price. With Day 2 approaching fast, I've had more time to reflect. Yes I am happy Manning will be a Giant but I still think this was handled poorly:
1. The Chargers were in a difficult position with Manning threatening to sit out. Accorsi didn't use his leverage. He gave the Chargers more than they got for giving the #1 to Atlanta so they could take Vick. The Giants might regret giving up their 2005 first rounder next year and they shouldn't have had to.
2. San Diego gave up #37 to move up one spot to #6. They would have given up at least as much to get to #4. The Giants could have gotten Rivers at #7 and still made the deal for Manning. Then they would have gotten the extra second round pick (or more) and we all know there were very good players at LB and safety that the Giants could use. Or they could have offered #37 instead of next years first to the Chargers.
Sure, we're getting two good players in Manning and Snee, maybe two great players. However, I can't help feeling that we should have gotten more. Let's look forward to a strong Day 2! Lots of opportunities with the first pick, including some offensive tackles who weren't expected to fall this far. Of course, at some point we might need a defensive guy...
This from Yahoo Sports:
Eli Manning didn't want to play for the Chargers, and he won't have to. San Diego picked Manning with the top selection in Saturday's NFL draft, then traded him to the Giants for Philip Rivers (the No. 4 pick), a thrid-round pick this year, and the Giants' first- and fifth-round picks next year.
I finally read an idea that I really like. Take a player at #4, preferably Sean Taylor. Use the #34 pick, another draft choice, and/or maybe Ike Hillirad or the suddenly expendable Omar Stoutmire (if we draft Taylor at #4) to move up in the draft, ahead of the Packers in the first round. Draft JP Losman who Accorsi says is as good as Eli Manning.
Neil Best writes that many experts still expect a deal between the Chargers and Giants. While the Browns have offered their #7 and their first round choice in 2005, San Diego doesn't like #7. To me that means they are not as interested in Rivers (who would probably be available at #7) as we once thought.
Len Pasquerelli, on the other hand, expects the Charger's to draft Eli Manning #1. If this happens, the question becomes "What will Eli do?" Basically, he could play for the Chargers or sit out for a year. If he enters the draft again in 2005, he'd better hope the Chargers don't draft #1 again...
If I'm the Chargers, I trade with the Browns. The draft maybe unfolds like this:
#1 Browns: Gallery
#2 Raiders: Eli Manning (they like Roy Williams, and they might offer to trade with the Giants, but since they can get an excellebt receiver with their second round choice, they go for Manning. Ganon is not young...)
#3 Cardinals: Fitzgerald
#4 Giants: Roethlisberger (Many fans want Sean Taylor, but Accorsi wants a franchise QB)
#5 Redskins: Winslow (Taylor is a possibility here, but Winslow in a Joe Gibbs TE friendly offense will be too deadly for the Redskins to pass up)
#6 Lions: Sean Taylor
#7 Chargers: With only one defensive player off the board, the best corners and defensive linemen are here for the Chargers to choose from. Phillip Rivers is here too.
The MLB cut by the Giants for cap reasons signed with the Washington Redskins. A lot of NFC East linebackers have switched teams but stayed in the division. Dhain Jones went to the Eagles. Carlos Emmons went to the Giants. Now Barrow goes to the Redskins...
Don't forget that the former Giants Cornelius Griffin also signed with the Redskins. Speaking of defensive tackles, William Joseph is hurt, but is expected to be ready some time during training camp.
The article is about how the Giants will need to trade up for #1 because Archie Manning said Eli should play for the Giants. It ends: "This is going to cost the Giants plenty. Imagine the outrage among Giants fans if their team doesn't make the deal."
Here is a writer truly out of touch with Giants fans. A quick trip the Giants.com message boards would reveal that many many fans are extremely worried about giving up picks to take Manning.
And what kind of logic is this anyway? Because it's risky for the Charger's to draft Manning (unhappy QB, hold out, etc.) the Giants need to help them?
The NY Post talks about the Giants desire to trade up, stay put, or trade down and breaks down their needs: OL, MLB, FS. No surprises there.
I don't know how he knows or if I believe her, but Kimberly Jones writes that the Giants draft chart goes Manning, Gallery, Fitzgerald. I guess she didn't see the rest of the Giants draft chart but she thinks Roethlisberger or Taylor could be chosen at number 4. That's what everyone on the Giants.com message board says too though a few people have thrown Roy Williams' name around.
The worst article of the day award goes to Matt Shapiro who argues that the Giants should take Gallery instead of a QB. This is the same argument many Giants fans have been making for the past month or so. He also seems quite confident that the Giants can get Gallery with the #4 pick but acknowledges they may ahve to trade up to #3. He says most people expect Oakland to take Fitzgerald with the #2. Which people? Not many of the ones who write about NFL football. None of the Giants fans I've talked to on the Giants.com message boards.
Petigout thinks he could win the left tackle job if Gallery is drafted. Obviously drafting Gallery and paying him a ton of money to play on the right doesn't make perfect sense, but neither does paying Luke left tackle money to play on the right side. Of course, I'd rather have Gallery or Petigout on the right come opening day. I don't need to see Jevon Kearse embarass Ian Allen. Maybe Stokes could hold his own but maybe not.
Nothing new on the draft front, except that the Giants signed some competition for kicker Matt Bryant. Todd France was cut by the Vikings but has a strong enough leg to kick 50+ yard field goals. His accuracy on extra points seems to be good too. In the same article, you can read about Ryan Van Dyke who's doing pretty well for himself in NFL Europe.
What does it all mean? The Giants probably don't plan on drafting Kaeding in the third, but if the best college kicker fell to the fourth, the Giants might want to think about him with the first pick on day 2. If the Giants don't trade up for Manning, and Gallery is off the board at #4, they might go for Roethlisberger. Or they could go for Sean Taylor or Roy Williams or try to trade down a few spots where they could still get Big Ben, Taylor, or R. Williams. If they don't get a QB in the first, and Losman doesn't fall to the second, don't be surprised if the Giants go for Matt Schaub in the third.
Hopefully Van Dyke beats out the bachelor, so our QB depth chart would have Van Dyke and whoever we draft behind Collins this year. You might think I'm being to hard on Jessie Palmer, but seriously who's working at becoming a better football player? Ryan Van Dyke. Who's playing with women on TV? Jessie Palmer. Which kind of football player do you want on your team?
So we all know about the lies and subterfuge that always surrounds the NFL draft. So maybe that's why some reporters choose to ignore everything that's in the news regarding the draft and believe that Gallery will be available at #4. Reporters who actually read the news acknowledge that the Giants may have to trade up to land Gallery.
This mock draft has the Giants trading 2004 1st and 2nd round picks plus the 2nd in 2005 for the Chargers #1.
The Detroit free press has a less worrying rumor: #4 and Hilliard for #1.
Despite the rumors, the Redskins insist they do not want to trade up. They will stay at #5 or trade down.
Not according to Michael Radano, who expects the Eagles to go 14-2 and the Redskins to be tougher opponents than the Giants. I'll go on record here and predict that he'll be wrong on both counts.
Of the top ten draft questions, #1 is "will the Chargers trade #1 to the Giants?" The answer here is "yes" if the Chargers get our second round pick, #34. One scenario I'd never heard before involves giving up #4, #34, our sixth rounder, and Ron Dayne for #1. Too expensive in my view and I really hope we can get thunder and lightning back.
When Ernie Accorsi talked about the draft, he said that he would be happy to stay at #4. He said Collins is likely to be the starter this year although that's a coaching decision. Regarding recent bowl winning quarterbacks, he asked how many of those teams wouldn't rather have had Elway (drafted by Accorsi) in his prime. He's got a point there; it's possible to win without a great QB, but it's easier to win with one...
This 2 round mock draft has the Giants picking Roethlisberger at #4 and Teddy Lehman (LB Oklahoma) at #34 with Jacob Rogers going to the Browns at #37. The rationale is that the LB corps is a mess, but I think most of us fans are more worried about the OL.
While the mock draft says Big Ben should be groomed for a year behind Collins, this (and you have to register with the Washington Post to read it) article about Collins and Maddox says that Collins might have to take a pay cut or be cut.
So it seems that the Chargers may keep the #1 pick after all because they don't want to miss out on Manning and Gallery. I'm not sure I agree with the logic in this article since I read that the Chargers were more interested in Big Ben and Rivers than they were in Manning. If they did keep the #1 pick, they'd probably go for Manning. The Browns or the Redskins would trade up to #2 and grab Gallery, the Cardinals are expected to take a receiver, likely Fitzgerald or Roy Williams.
Then at #4 the Giants would be trading down, taking Big Ben, taking Sean Taylor, or taking a receiver. I suppose the Giants could look into getting Oakland's #2 also, but the Redskins sure have an advantage offering a good left tackle like Samuels.
I found a link to an intelligent analysis of the Giants done by detroit Lions fans. I don't know how any of them could be confident about beating anybody, but aside from a few "we'll spank the Giants" posts, this analysis is very interesting: Know the Foe: New York Giants
Nick Greisen thinks he'll win the starting MLB job. He hopes he does because he neds to prove something this year (his contract is coming up).
The NFL schedule has been delyed; the person in charge has passed away.
The Giants are supposed to be mainly interested in Manning and Gallery for the 2004 nFL draft, which means they peobably have to trade up. If they saty put we're looking at Sean Taylor or a receiver (I like Roy Williams better than Larry Fitzgerald) according to this article from Newsday.
Here's an interview with Ernie Accorsi who talks about drafting great players, getting offensive linemen, and Jessie Palmer (who should be studying football instead of fooling around on TV).
An article about how NFC East teams might approach the draft.
Here's an interesting article about how the Redskins and other teams want to trade up to #2 to get Gallery if the Giants trade up to #1 and get Manning.
Here's a crazy article about how the Giants need to trade up for Manning. The reasoning seems to be that franchise QBs are rare. They acknowledge that Tom Brady and Brad Johnson have won the last three superbowls, but they don't understand what that means. They ignore the fact that a QB is one guy out of about 50. They ignore the fact that you need a team to play football. They mention giving up the entire draft for Manning. Maybe they think he can win games by himself. Forget that Dan Marino couldn't. Forget that Tom Brady's team can beat Payton Manning's team because not one Patriots player is overpaid.
If we draft Manning, I'll root for him, but right now I'm rooting for Accorsi to stick with #4. I mean look at the top guys: Sean taylor, Robert Gallery, Manning, Big Ben, Larry Fitzgerald. Which ones are riskiest? the QBs. If we draft Taylor or Gallery (one or both should be available at #4, preferably Gallery) we probably can't lose. If we trade up we can lose BIG. Say we trade away our second round pick. Look at a mock draft and the great players projected to go in the top of round two. Nat Dorsey, for example. If we don't get Gallery, we're still hurting on OL...
The Giants signed Norman Hand. This article says he's a premeir run stopper. If Joseph turns into a decent pass rusher, and Robbins is a good #3 guy, I think we'll have a good defensive line even if it's not addressed in the draft or if we don't sign any more free agents. For those of you as concerned about the cap situation as I am, I read it was a 2 year/2 million dollar deal. I know I was talking about trading down and getting Tommie Harris, and lots of people like Igor Olshansky (possible third round pick). I don't think any of that is necessary now. Strahan backed up by Bromell, Washington and Osi on the other end. Joseph, Hand, Robbins, Chase sharing time in the middle. If Joseph and Osi have break out years, the DL will rock. If not, we'll still be OK.
Also, the craziness about trading up to get Eli Manning continues... I would prefer Gallery at #4. If not Gallery, then Roethlisberger at #4 (though some people think we could trade down and still get him). In the unlikely event that Manning, Roth, and Gallery are the first three off the board, how about Sean Taylor to give us one of the best secondaries (if not the best) in the NFL? Or maybe trading down to get one of the three top receivers or trading down further to get a MLB.
With so many high priced veteran signings and so few draft picks, the Redskins might be in big trouble soon. I won't cry. Here's the article about how valuable draft picks are to buidling teams and teams that are already contenders.
The Giants signed an offensive tackle, but don't get too excited if you're a Sean Taylor fan; we still need Gallery (although Taylor at #4 and then Nat Dorsey in round 2 is a possibility IF Dorsey is still there).
"An eight-year veteran, Ellis has played 54 games with seven starts." Since Ellis has to be considered a back up, I can only guess that OT will be addressed during the draft. The Giants are reportedly around 3 million under the cap, so I don't see them picking up too many quality starters via free agency...
The Giants signed a defensive end - According to the article, Lorenzo Bromell:
Bromell played the last six games of the 2003 season with Oakland, starting four and picking up two sacks and 12 tackles. He signed with the Raiders on Nov. 19 after being released by Minnesota because of a knee injury in training camp.
The Clemson University product entered the NFL as Miami's fourth-round draft pick in 1998, the 102nd pick overall. He played in 14 regular season and two postseason games that year, logging a career-high eight sacks that tied him with Green Bay's Vonnie Holliday for the lead among NFL rookies and tied Bill Stanfill's Dophins rookie record.
And an OK 2001:
For the 2001 season, Bromell played in all 16 games and was second on Miami with 6.5 sacks and had a career-high 45 tackles (25 solo).
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4665459/ is an article moslty about pro day workouts and Maurice Clarett and Mike Williams. I count it as Giants news because they quote Ernie Accorsie a lot so if you want to read this one you can get a feel for how Accorsi approaches the draft in terms of game footage and workouts and how important each is.
http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/10810710383640.xml is an interesting article about how the NFC East is a tough decision and how the Eagles are the team to beat.
From an article mostly about a draft prospect with MS:
The other New York wide receiver who re-did his contract this week, Amani Toomer of the Giants, netted nearly $5.9 million in so-called "new money" by extending his deal. Under his former contract, which ran through 2006, Toomer was due roughly $14.8 million, including $4.4 million in total compensation for 2004. The Giants instead negotiated a new five-year contract, through 2008, and the value is $20.66 million. For the new contract, which saves the Giants just over $2 million on their '04 salary cap, Toomer banked an $8 million signing bonus. His base salaries are $660,000 (for 2004), $1.9 million (2005), $2.4 million (2006), $2.85 million (2007) and $3.1 million (2008). There is a $250,000 reporting bonus for '05 and roster bonuses of $500,000 each for the 2006-2008 seasons. The total cap savings for the Giants 2004-2006 is $4.2 million.
With the Giants looking for help on the offensive line, I thought this was intersting: http://www.jaguars.com/Story/3528.asp. It's a run down on a bunch of OL draft prospects. It doesn't talk about Stacey Andrews, a raw HUGE talent. I know the Giants need OL help right away, but this guy has the physical gifts to be the best lineman in the game in a few years. If he's there in round 4, I would love to see the Giants take a chance on him.
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7226801 is an interesting article about how the number of teams switching to or sometimes using a 3-4 defense will affect the 2004 NFL draft. With the rumors about the Giants sometimes showing a 3-4 next season, this might be relevant to the Giants draft strategy.
It also mentions the Wonderlic. I'm not personally familiar with it, but as a teacher I have never seen a standardized test that can accurately measure intelligence. I doubt the Wonderlic can.
The gist of an article:
1. Dayne has lost weight to get to 250. TC has set a 240-242 target.
2. Collins is anxious to see if the Giants draft Manning or Roethlisberger.
3. Will Peterson is nearly 100%.
4. Rich Seubert and Carlos Emmons are getting better.
The article: http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1080900608221740.xml
The Giants (and other teams) went to see some Purdue guys work on March 26. If you're curious about what happens on a pro-day, here's a cool run down.
The reason I bring it up is Niko Koutouvides, a middle linebacker projected to go in the third round. I like him and could see the Giants taking him in the third if they don't address this team need in round 2.
I like that the Giants have signed Amani Toomer long term. Sure, he has been criticized for dropping a few passes in the end zone last season, but overall, he has clearly been the Giants most consistent wideout for the past few years.
He's no Randy Moss, but the Vikings proved that one Randy Moss doesn't win you the superbowl. That's not to say a team doesn't need good wideouts. The Eagles proved that it's hard to win without some talent at the position. That's why T.O. makes them the team to beat (again) in the NFC.
Speaking of T.O., Will Peterson says he can handle him. McNabb's detractor's say he can't get Owens the ball anyway. I don't know why they say that. McNabb got him the ball in the pro bowl. Anyway, we'll see if the Giants corners can cover Owens and if Mcnabb can get Owens the ball.
I had been planning to write about how the Giants should stick with #4 (not trade up for Eli) and hope Gallery or Ben Roethlisberger was still there. If not I had been planning to write about how the Jints should trade down, pick up another 2nd round pick, and go after Tommie Harris in round 1.
However after reading Tommie Harris's NFL.com analysis it seems far from certain that he has what it takes to be a dominating DT in the NFL.
Maybe I'm moving to the "take Sean Taylor" if Gallery and Roethlisberger are gone camp.